Presidential debate has unsophisticated section about abortion
Most of the answers don't get specific enough to address the current landscape of reproductive rights.
In Tuesday’s presidential debate, abortion came up early on.
Trump has flip-flopped on abortion throughout his campaign. That was pointed out as the moderator asked Trump about how he bragged about killing Roe v. Wade and being the most antiabortion president in history. He contradicted himself later, saying that he would support reproductive rights. He endorsed the six-week abortion ban in Florida after saying that he wouldn’t. He responded:
The reason of doing that vote is because the plan is , you know, the vote is…they have abortion in the ninth month they even have…and you can look at the governor of West Virginia, the previous governor of West Virginia…not the current governor, is doing an excellent job…but the governor before he said, ‘The baby will be born and we will decide what to do with the baby.’”
In other words, we'll execute the baby. And that's why I did that, because that predominates. Because they are radical. The Democrats are radical in that. And her vice presidential pick, which I think is a horrible pick, by the way, for our country, because he is really out of it. But her vice presidential pick says abortion in the ninth month is absolutely fine. He also says execution after birth is execution…no longer abortion because the baby is born is okay…and that's not okay with me, hence the vote.
But what I did is something. For 52 years, they've been trying to get Roe v Wade into the states, and through the genius and heart and strength of six Supreme Court justices, we were able to do that. Now I believe in the exceptions for rape, incest and life of the mother. I believe strongly, and Ronald Reagan did also.
85 percent of Republicans…do exceptions, very important…but we were able to get it, and now states are voting on it. And for the first time, you're going to see, look, this is an issue that's torn our country apart for 52 years. Every legal scholar, every Democrat, every Republican, liberal conservative, they all wanted this issue to be brought back to the states where the people could vote, and that's what happened. Happened.
Now, Ohio, the vote was somewhat liberal. Kansas, the vote was somewhat liberal. Much more liberal than people would have thought. But each individual state is voting. It's the vote of the people. Now it's not tied up in the federal government. I did a great service in doing it. It took courage to do it, and the Supreme Court had great courage in doing it, and I give tremendous credit to those six justices.
Trump made the point about the governor in West Virginia, but he had meant to misrepresent the governor of Virginia. Trump’s characterization of former Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam was disputed by the Associated Press, which gave a clearer view of his comments. He was giving a hypothetical example of what could happen if a mother whose fetus had severe deformities or wasn’t otherwise viable and whose mother requested an abortion while in labor. He had previously made that mischaracterization in the last debate, and the moderators have not clarified that point in either debate.
The latter point about allowing abortion in the ninth month is a misrepresentation of the reasons for the laws in New York and California. Harris didn’t clarify that by saying that most abortions happen in the first trimester, and the laws permitting abortion later in pregnancy without questions are designed to help women in situations where their pregnancy has fetal deformities or other health concerns. They get abortions without having to justify doing so.
I don’t know how Donald Trump can say that every legal scholar wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade. That shows he’s never read a single brief or book about abortion. It’s been the most divisive legal question of the last 50 years. Even since then, with the work of Greer Donley and David Cohen being at the forefront, abortion-related Supreme Court cases have included dozens of amicus briefs filed to reinstate the protections of Roe.
As for saying that states will determine it, he failed to address that attorney generals and governors throughout the country have attempted to thwart the will of voters through disqualifying ballot initiatives by questioning the validity of the petitioning process. Today, I reported on how Florida police interrogated voters who signed petitions. In Arkansas, they had successfully gathered enough signatures only to have the state supreme court disqualify enough of them to prevent it from going before voters. Harris also didn’t make these points in her debate responses or ask him why his party wouldn’t allow voters to decide.
Here is what Harris said she had her first turn to address the topic:
As I said, you're going to hear a bunch of lies, and that's not actually a surprising fact. Let's understand how we got here. Donald Trump hand-selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe v Wade, and they did exactly as he intended.
And now, in over 20 states, there are Trump abortion bans, which make it criminal for a doctor or nurse to provide health care in one state. It provides prison for life. Trump abortion bans that make no exception, even for rape and incest, which…understand what that means.
A survivor of a crime of violation to their body does not have the right to make a decision about what happens to their body. That is immoral and one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government and Donald Trump certainly should not be telling a woman what to do with her body.
I have talked with women around our country. You want to talk about this is what people wanted. Pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term, suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the health care providers are afraid they might go to jail and she's bleeding out in a car in the parking lot. She didn't want that. Her husband didn't want that.
A 12 or 13 year old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term. They don't want that. And I pledge to you, when Congress passes a bill to put back in place the protections of Roe v Wade as President of the United States, I will proudly sign it in to law. But understand, if Donald Trump were to be reelected, he will sign a national abortion ban. Understand, in his Project 2025, there would be a national abortion monitor that would be monitoring your pregnancies, your miscarriages. I think the American people believe that certain freedoms, in particular, the freedom to make decisions about one's own body should not be made by the government.
Most of the remarks were anecdotal, designed to provoke viewers' emotions. On a tangential note, it’s remarkable that we go from defending fetal tissue research under President Bill Clinton to defending abortions in situations involving rape and incest and emphasizing our support for that. This doesn’t seem as ambitious or aspirational as it needs to be.
Trump responded:
There she goes again. It's a lie. I'm not signing a ban, and there's no reason to sign a ban because we've gotten what everybody wanted. Democrats, Republicans and everybody else. And every legal scholar wanted it to be brought back into the states, and the states are voting, and it may take a little time. But for 52 years, this issue has torn our country apart, and they wanted it back in the states.
And I did something that nobody thought was possible, the states are now voting. What she says is an absolute lie. And as far as the abortion ban, no, I'm not in favor of abortion ban, but it doesn't matter, because this issue has now been taken over by the states.
The moderator again asked him point-blank whether he would.
Well, I won't have to, because again..two things. Number one, she said she'll go back to Congress. She'll never get the vote. It's impossible for her to get the vote, especially now with the 50-50, essentially, 50-50 in both the Senate and the House. She's not going to get the vote. She can't get the vote. She won't even come close to it. So it's just talk.
The moderator again asked him about whether he’d support a ban. She also pointed out that his running mate, JD Vance, had said that he would support an abortion ban.
Well, I didn't discuss it with JD. In all fairness, JD..and I don't mind if he has a certain view, but I think he was speaking for me, but I really didn't… look we don't have to discuss it because she'd never be able to get it.
The moderator asked Harris if she would support any restrictions.
I absolutely support reinstating the protections of Roe v Wade. And as you rightly mentioned, nowhere in America is a woman carrying a pregnancy to term and asking for an abortion that is not happening. It's insulting to the women of America and understand what has been happening under Donald Trump's abortion bans.
Couples who pray and dream of having a family are being denied IVF treatments. What is happening in our country…working people, working women who are working one or two jobs, who can barely afford child care as it is, have to travel to another state to get on a plane, sitting next to strangers to go and get the health care she needs.
Barely can afford to do it, and what you are putting her through is unconscionable, and the people of America have not that. The majority of Americans believe in a woman's right to make decisions about her own body, and that is why in every state where this issue has been on the ballot, in red and blue states, both the people of America have voted for freedom.
The point about IVF could have been a lot stronger by clarifying that IVF was banned because the Alabama Supreme Court had established embryonic personhood, which means that IVF providers can’t store embryos. After all, a destroyed petri dish could amount to manslaughter. Pushing Trump on whether he supports embryonic personhood would force him to admit that he didn’t think a fetus had the same legal protections as a born human.
Concepts like fetal and embryonic personhood are never discussed in these debates, which is a reflection of how much discussions about abortion should be better informed with broader reading and preparation by candidates from both parties and those who prepare them for debates. The moderators need to understand the nitty-gritty details to ask more precise follow-up questions that would give a clearer and more sophisticated understanding.
Unsophisticated arguments seem to be how politicians have argued for abortion for decades, and you see the consequences. Today, with Substack and other online mediums, longer and more explanatory answers would do better than short and pithy remarks carefully crafted after poll testing.
Trump ended the debate section about reproductive rights by saying:
Another lie. It's another lie. I have been a leader on IVF, which, which is fertilization, the IVF. I have been a leader. In fact, when they got a very negative decision on IVF from the Alabama courts…I saw the people of Alabama..and the legislature two days later, voted it in. I've been a leader on it. They know that, and everybody else knows it. I have been a leader on fertilization, IVF. And the other thing they…you should ask…will she allow abortion in the eighth month? Ninth month, seventh month, okay, would you do that, why don't you ask questions? You could do abortions in the seventh month, the eighth month, the ninth month, probably after birth. Just look at the Governor, former governor of Virginia. The governor of Virginia said, we put the baby aside, and then we determine what we want to do with it.
The day after the decision, Alabama’s governor signed a law to protect IVF patients and providers from legal liability. However, it didn’t clarify whether an embryo had the right to personhood. Many medical facilities wouldn’t start doing IVF treatments as a result.
That’s my assessment and analysis of their treatment of reproductive rights.